1 00:00:08,700 --> 00:00:09,700 [ Background Music ] 2 00:00:09,700 --> 00:00:10,700 >> Good day. 3 00:00:10,700 --> 00:00:12,420 I'm Amiko Kauderer with NASA Public Affairs. 4 00:00:12,420 --> 00:00:18,610 Mars is a fascinating planet and NASA's journey to Mars has many challenges and many possibilities. 5 00:00:18,610 --> 00:00:23,950 We recently talked with NASA Planetary Director Jim Green and NASA Astronaut Stan Love about 6 00:00:23,950 --> 00:00:27,590 taking a trip to Mars and what it will take to get this us there. 7 00:00:27,590 --> 00:00:32,160 Here's more of what we learned about a future trek to the red planet in this special edition 8 00:00:32,160 --> 00:00:35,230 of 30 Minutes to Mars. 9 00:00:35,230 --> 00:00:39,660 We get an example of robots and humans working every day as it is now on the International 10 00:00:39,660 --> 00:00:40,660 Space Station. 11 00:00:40,660 --> 00:00:44,890 So for you Stan, and you can better explain some of-- some of that and also what it's 12 00:00:44,890 --> 00:00:47,829 like to be living with other human beings. 13 00:00:47,829 --> 00:00:49,810 I don't know, what is the size of the crew? 14 00:00:49,810 --> 00:00:52,140 Have they even discussed what that might be on Mars? 15 00:00:52,140 --> 00:00:54,280 >> They have discussed, of course, the engineers. 16 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:58,450 The ideal number of human crew members as far as the engineers are concerned is zero 17 00:00:58,450 --> 00:01:02,070 because it makes the ship so much simpler and lighter if you don't send any people. 18 00:01:02,070 --> 00:01:07,740 Realistically you don't want to send too few people to be locked together in a minivan 19 00:01:07,740 --> 00:01:12,360 for three years because the social interactions can be bad. 20 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:17,310 So you need a certain size of crew, maybe about six or so, to keep a social atmosphere 21 00:01:17,310 --> 00:01:20,039 that's not going to disintegrate. 22 00:01:20,039 --> 00:01:25,549 There's also reason to send more people because the trip to Mars is going to be expensive. 23 00:01:25,549 --> 00:01:28,820 We're probably going to have to cooperate with other nations and other agencies to do 24 00:01:28,820 --> 00:01:33,869 it and they are going to be unwilling to pony up the money if their person doesn't get to 25 00:01:33,869 --> 00:01:34,869 go. 26 00:01:34,869 --> 00:01:40,869 So for international cooperation purposes a crew of four to six is probably about right. 27 00:01:40,869 --> 00:01:45,840 If you go back and look at the history books and see what happened when we were exploring 28 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:51,770 the arctic and Antarctic around the turn of the last century around 1900 there are cases 29 00:01:51,770 --> 00:01:58,069 where very small parties went for very long times in very harsh conditions and did okay. 30 00:01:58,069 --> 00:02:01,329 So I don't think that's a tall tent pole. 31 00:02:01,329 --> 00:02:04,850 Now working with robots, on the International Space Station we talked a lot about the robot 32 00:02:04,850 --> 00:02:05,850 arm. 33 00:02:05,850 --> 00:02:06,850 >> Mm-hmm. 34 00:02:06,850 --> 00:02:10,179 >> But that is not much of a robot. 35 00:02:10,179 --> 00:02:11,630 It's a manipulator system. 36 00:02:11,630 --> 00:02:12,630 >> Mm-hmm. 37 00:02:12,630 --> 00:02:16,320 >> The crew commands it and it goes exactly where they tell it to. 38 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:20,459 And there's a great deal more typing than there is hand controller work but that's how 39 00:02:20,459 --> 00:02:21,599 you control it. 40 00:02:21,599 --> 00:02:26,019 The robots that we're talking about for planetary exploration are smart. 41 00:02:26,019 --> 00:02:31,879 They can roll forward, detect a rock, and go around the rock. 42 00:02:31,879 --> 00:02:35,580 Our robot arm on space station, the only thing that prevents it from hitting the space station 43 00:02:35,580 --> 00:02:36,629 is the crew. 44 00:02:36,629 --> 00:02:38,610 It has no intelligence whatsoever. 45 00:02:38,610 --> 00:02:45,629 So when we talk about robotic assistance on the surface of Mars we're talking about something 46 00:02:45,629 --> 00:02:50,879 far more sophisticated than the jointed manipulator systems that we're using on the space station. 47 00:02:50,879 --> 00:02:51,879 >> Sure. 48 00:02:51,879 --> 00:02:55,700 >> These things will be able to follow a human along, carry tools, analyze things, be sending 49 00:02:55,700 --> 00:02:59,760 back telemetry to the base all the time. 50 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,739 And they'll be able to make some of their own decisions, which is not something we see 51 00:03:02,739 --> 00:03:03,879 on the space station. 52 00:03:03,879 --> 00:03:04,879 >> Yeah. 53 00:03:04,879 --> 00:03:08,459 >> One of the-- It's actually a lander that we're building right now is called insight. 54 00:03:08,459 --> 00:03:09,459 >> Okay. 55 00:03:09,459 --> 00:03:15,359 >> And it-- It's going to land not very far, actually, from where curiosity is, approximately 56 00:03:15,359 --> 00:03:20,989 in the same longitude but several degrees in latitude higher. 57 00:03:20,989 --> 00:03:26,540 And it's designed to make seismic measurements, going to put a seismometer down on the surface. 58 00:03:26,540 --> 00:03:33,690 It's going to drill several meters below the ground and then look for the heat flow, and 59 00:03:33,690 --> 00:03:37,909 that's all about determining how active the planet really is. 60 00:03:37,909 --> 00:03:40,940 Does it have a molten core? 61 00:03:40,940 --> 00:03:46,219 How geologically active in terms of Marsquakes, if you will? 62 00:03:46,219 --> 00:03:47,659 We also want to know that. 63 00:03:47,659 --> 00:03:53,780 And we know Mars is hit by meteors that are coming primarily from the asteroid belt, which 64 00:03:53,780 --> 00:03:56,970 exists between Mars and Jupiter. 65 00:03:56,970 --> 00:04:01,040 And as those impacts occur they're going to generate sound waves. 66 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:06,860 And then inside sitting on the surface a seismometer will see those and then understand a lot more 67 00:04:06,860 --> 00:04:11,269 about the structure, the interior structure of that planet. 68 00:04:11,269 --> 00:04:16,900 From a scientific point of view that's tremendously exciting because it gives us an idea of another 69 00:04:16,900 --> 00:04:22,150 terrestrial planet and how it's put together and tells us about the early origin of our 70 00:04:22,150 --> 00:04:24,870 terrestrial planets here in the solar system. 71 00:04:24,870 --> 00:04:31,760 From human exploration perspective knowing how active Mars is will allow them to work 72 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:36,540 in the field without getting knocked down if there are large Marsquakes. 73 00:04:36,540 --> 00:04:40,971 And indeed we just don't know how active Mars is and that's-- That will be important to 74 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:42,280 know. 75 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:51,000 Some people call those the space station of Mars, you know, because, you know, there might 76 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:55,210 be an element of that where we go visit Phobos and Deimos first. 77 00:04:55,210 --> 00:04:56,210 >> Yeah. 78 00:04:56,210 --> 00:04:57,210 >> Before we get down on the surface. 79 00:04:57,210 --> 00:04:58,210 >> Yeah many- 80 00:04:58,210 --> 00:04:59,210 >> What are your thoughts on that? 81 00:04:59,210 --> 00:05:02,720 >> Yeah many of the technical problems for getting to Mars are landing on Mars and then 82 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:04,770 launching again off of Mars. 83 00:05:04,770 --> 00:05:06,310 Mars is a planet. 84 00:05:06,310 --> 00:05:07,820 It's hard to launch off of Mars. 85 00:05:07,820 --> 00:05:12,060 When we launch people off of the Earth we go down to Kennedy Space Center in Florida 86 00:05:12,060 --> 00:05:18,510 and there are 10,000 incredibly dedicated people who put those spacecraft together, 87 00:05:18,510 --> 00:05:22,620 get them out on the pad, make sure everything is perfect before we launch them. 88 00:05:22,620 --> 00:05:27,710 And when you go to Mars and it's time to come home you will do all that work yourself. 89 00:05:27,710 --> 00:05:29,610 No dedicated army of people. 90 00:05:29,610 --> 00:05:31,270 You will check out all the systems. 91 00:05:31,270 --> 00:05:35,500 You will make sure the air-- the spacecraft is, you know, fueled and ready to go. 92 00:05:35,500 --> 00:05:39,240 And that's a job we've never had crews do all by themselves before so that's going to 93 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,340 be a new one for us. 94 00:05:41,340 --> 00:05:48,981 Phobos and Deimos, Mar's two small moons, the larger is maybe 20 miles across and the 95 00:05:48,981 --> 00:05:51,720 smaller is maybe 12 miles across. 96 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,760 They are much easier to get to than the surface because you don't have to go down in that 97 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,110 gravity well and then slow down and stop. 98 00:05:58,110 --> 00:06:02,140 You can stay higher in orbit and the job of slowing down and stopping is much easier. 99 00:06:02,140 --> 00:06:06,000 And then launching off of Phobos and Deimos you could do with a good jump. 100 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,650 So you don't have to have big powerful rockets and punch through all that atmosphere and 101 00:06:09,650 --> 00:06:14,210 get your five kilometers per second of escape velocity. 102 00:06:14,210 --> 00:06:18,720 That said, they are not easy objects to work with. 103 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:25,820 So first of all they're so small that their gravity is, well, every hundred pounds of 104 00:06:25,820 --> 00:06:32,120 weight you have on Earth gets you one ounce on Phobos and one half an ounce on Deimos. 105 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:36,940 And when we practice our space walks under water in the neutral buoyancy lab and our 106 00:06:36,940 --> 00:06:44,010 150 or 200 pounds of person plus 350 pounds of space suit perfect weigh out in the NBL 107 00:06:44,010 --> 00:06:47,740 is plus or minus one pound and that feels just like being in weightlessness. 108 00:06:47,740 --> 00:06:51,950 Your weigh out on Phobos and Deimos will be an ounce or so. 109 00:06:51,950 --> 00:06:57,550 So it's a better simulation of zero gravity than the simulations we use to train for zero 110 00:06:57,550 --> 00:06:58,680 gravity. 111 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,450 So essentially you're on a natural object covered with rocks and dirt and dust that 112 00:07:02,450 --> 00:07:04,060 has no gravity. 113 00:07:04,060 --> 00:07:06,160 every time you touch it stuff is going to float away. 114 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,970 If you just touch that with your finger off you go. 115 00:07:09,970 --> 00:07:12,000 And it could be hours before you fall back down again. 116 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,020 You will not walk on Phobos and Deimos. 117 00:07:14,020 --> 00:07:18,170 Your legs are much too clumsy and strong. 118 00:07:18,170 --> 00:07:22,260 You will barely touch Phobos and Deimos and then you will go drifting off to the side 119 00:07:22,260 --> 00:07:27,360 and it may be 10 or 20 minutes before you can touch Phobos or Deimos again. 120 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,470 So we don't know how to operate in that environment yet. 121 00:07:30,470 --> 00:07:34,720 Our weightless environment that we practice in in Earth orbit, the International Space 122 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:36,890 Station, is covered with handrails. 123 00:07:36,890 --> 00:07:41,130 And if there's no handrails we don't go there because we need something to hold onto. 124 00:07:41,130 --> 00:07:43,130 Phobos and Deimos it's just rocks and dust. 125 00:07:43,130 --> 00:07:48,140 If you feel yourself drifting away you grab a rock and the rock comes with you and drifts 126 00:07:48,140 --> 00:07:51,040 away, whereas on the space station if we're moving away we just grab the handrail and 127 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:52,040 pull ourselves back. 128 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:53,040 >> Pull yourself back. 129 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:54,040 So how-- What are we going to do? 130 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:55,600 How are we going to learn how to do that? 131 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:56,750 >> Good question. 132 00:07:56,750 --> 00:07:58,010 We're working on it right now. 133 00:07:58,010 --> 00:08:04,200 So one thing you could do if you can figure out how to fire a harpoon into that dusty 134 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,380 rocky surface, not a guarantee that it'll work. 135 00:08:07,380 --> 00:08:10,910 You could stretch out ropes and crawl around on the ropes. 136 00:08:10,910 --> 00:08:13,080 We're not sure about that. 137 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,071 We've looked at techniques for smaller asteroids where you just take the whole asteroid and 138 00:08:16,071 --> 00:08:18,880 put it in a fishing net and crawl around on the fishing net. 139 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,380 Phobos and Deimos are too big for that. 140 00:08:21,380 --> 00:08:22,630 >> Hmm. 141 00:08:22,630 --> 00:08:26,560 >> You could carry a little jet pack to push yourself back but then the fuel requirements 142 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,360 get pretty big after you've used it a few times. 143 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:32,930 You know we have a tiny little jet pack that we carry for self-rescue on the International 144 00:08:32,930 --> 00:08:34,060 Space Station. 145 00:08:34,060 --> 00:08:35,060 >> Mm-hmm. 146 00:08:35,060 --> 00:08:38,720 >> We would run that out of gas in probably five minutes of work on Phobos and Deimos 147 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,020 so we need something a little more capable. 148 00:08:41,020 --> 00:08:44,430 So you save the problems of having to land on Mars and take off again but you've signed 149 00:08:44,430 --> 00:08:48,990 up for a whole other pile of interesting technical problems that you have to solve. 150 00:08:48,990 --> 00:08:49,990 >> Sure. 151 00:08:49,990 --> 00:08:51,172 And so are we talking to one another? 152 00:08:51,172 --> 00:08:55,430 I mean are we gathering the information that you guys are discovering so that we understand 153 00:08:55,430 --> 00:09:01,280 better what we need to know in order to live off the land and get there and leave and survive 154 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:02,280 and that sort of thing? 155 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:03,280 How-- How are we doing that? 156 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,950 >> I think that conversation has always been there at some level. 157 00:09:05,950 --> 00:09:10,230 But it's now, I think, well on its way to increasing rapidly. 158 00:09:10,230 --> 00:09:16,390 We now have the capability to really find landing sights of significance, both for science 159 00:09:16,390 --> 00:09:18,670 but certainly human exploration. 160 00:09:18,670 --> 00:09:20,250 And we need to probe that. 161 00:09:20,250 --> 00:09:23,580 We need to really work more closely together. 162 00:09:23,580 --> 00:09:28,150 I think as we get down to the later part of-- latter part of this decade and we're actually 163 00:09:28,150 --> 00:09:33,279 using this ISRU that is on Mars 2020. 164 00:09:33,279 --> 00:09:38,640 >> Now when you say ISRU that's In-Situ Resource Utilization, fancy word for living off the 165 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:39,810 land essentially, correct? 166 00:09:39,810 --> 00:09:40,810 >> Correct. 167 00:09:40,810 --> 00:09:46,140 Yeah and it takes in the atmosphere and creates the O2, separates the carbon from carbon dioxide 168 00:09:46,140 --> 00:09:47,650 leaving the oxygen. 169 00:09:47,650 --> 00:09:48,650 >> Okay. 170 00:09:48,650 --> 00:09:53,240 >> And so that-- That's an important process and this is really that first demonstration. 171 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:58,920 I think we're going to see more of those experiments as part of the scientific payloads that we 172 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,920 do, particularly in the 2020s. 173 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,450 So it's a, I think, an exciting era. 174 00:10:05,450 --> 00:10:07,680 Mars we should not be afraid of. 175 00:10:07,680 --> 00:10:10,920 It's a fabulous destination for us to explore. 176 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:16,990 It has so many scientific questions that we could answer and it might actually be the 177 00:10:16,990 --> 00:10:22,490 first place where we find life beyond the atmosphere of our own earth. 178 00:10:22,490 --> 00:10:31,060 And if we can do that that is really a tremendous step forward in understanding life in our 179 00:10:31,060 --> 00:10:32,940 own universe and how it is created. 180 00:10:32,940 --> 00:10:33,940 >> Sure. 181 00:10:33,940 --> 00:10:34,940 And are you ready to go? 182 00:10:34,940 --> 00:10:35,940 >> Oh yes. 183 00:10:35,940 --> 00:10:36,940 Sign me up. 184 00:10:36,940 --> 00:10:38,670 Although my wife might have something to say about it but-- 185 00:10:38,670 --> 00:10:39,670 >> It's a long trip. 186 00:10:39,670 --> 00:10:41,160 >> It is a very long trip. 187 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:42,160 >> Yes. 188 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,560 >> And you will not be digging your toes in the sand when you get there. 189 00:10:45,560 --> 00:10:50,530 >> [laughs] So well, and you mentioned something about some of the technologies and saying, 190 00:10:50,530 --> 00:10:53,780 well we're working on this or that but we're not quite sure. 191 00:10:53,780 --> 00:10:58,160 Is there going to be a way that we can be totally sure before we go or do we just go 192 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:00,740 and just, kind of, hope that it's going work? 193 00:11:00,740 --> 00:11:02,030 >> It's going to be between those. 194 00:11:02,030 --> 00:11:03,030 >> Mm-hmm. 195 00:11:03,030 --> 00:11:04,030 >> Everything in life has risk. 196 00:11:04,030 --> 00:11:05,030 >> Right. 197 00:11:05,030 --> 00:11:06,190 >> Flying to Mars is going to have risk. 198 00:11:06,190 --> 00:11:12,880 If we wait until there is no more risk we will be landing on someone else's city on 199 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:18,900 Mars, because the first humans to go to Mars will be taking some risk. 200 00:11:18,900 --> 00:11:25,980 So we're doing quite a bit now actually in many different fields, medical, engineering, 201 00:11:25,980 --> 00:11:31,010 social sciences to understand what we have to to send people to Mars. 202 00:11:31,010 --> 00:11:35,350 >> So Jim you have convinced me that this is a fabulous. 203 00:11:35,350 --> 00:11:39,760 You've convinced me it's not really the place to go vacationing at but personally can you 204 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:41,470 tell me why? 205 00:11:41,470 --> 00:11:43,890 Why would you say yes I'm ready? 206 00:11:43,890 --> 00:11:44,890 Sign me up. 207 00:11:44,890 --> 00:11:49,720 >> It's a place that people have never been before and this has been important in the 208 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:54,350 whole history of our species on Earth. 209 00:11:54,350 --> 00:11:59,610 When new lands become available we like to go and see, and we like to go and see with 210 00:11:59,610 --> 00:12:00,690 our own eyes. 211 00:12:00,690 --> 00:12:02,570 We as a species are curious. 212 00:12:02,570 --> 00:12:06,710 We want to know what's there and we want to see with our own eyes and Mars is, sort of, 213 00:12:06,710 --> 00:12:11,800 the ultimate expression of that, a place where you could go. 214 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:16,170 >> And isn't it true though, also I know that our trip to the moon, they were the moon boons, 215 00:12:16,170 --> 00:12:17,170 right. 216 00:12:17,170 --> 00:12:21,480 We have lots of benefits that we-- that actually benefited all of mankind, just getting us 217 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:22,480 to the moon. 218 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:26,630 So do you think that we're going to get the same kind of benefits or even more going to 219 00:12:26,630 --> 00:12:27,630 Mars? 220 00:12:27,630 --> 00:12:32,550 >> Well as you develop the technologies necessary to do this kind of exploration. 221 00:12:32,550 --> 00:12:34,670 There's all sorts of benefits that come from that. 222 00:12:34,670 --> 00:12:40,760 I mean we really, I think, helped herald in the computer age that we have now. 223 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:45,589 You may not recognize it but in the last 50 or 60 years our knowledge of our solar system 224 00:12:45,589 --> 00:12:48,620 has just exploded. 225 00:12:48,620 --> 00:12:53,530 In the 60s planetary scientists, when they looked at the moon, thought that the craters 226 00:12:53,530 --> 00:12:57,580 were generated from volcanic processes. 227 00:12:57,580 --> 00:13:00,560 We now know that those are impact craters. 228 00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:05,120 There's hardly any volcanic craters on the moon. 229 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:13,070 And so our whole idea of what our neighborhood is like, our whole idea of living in the solar 230 00:13:13,070 --> 00:13:19,310 system, we recognize that the planet is a fragile place to live. 231 00:13:19,310 --> 00:13:24,470 And if we are going to survive as a human species, and a number of astronauts have even 232 00:13:24,470 --> 00:13:27,150 said this, we must trek out. 233 00:13:27,150 --> 00:13:29,610 And I think that's absolutely the right thing to do. 234 00:13:29,610 --> 00:13:33,529 >> Can you tell me a little more about we, kind of, touched base some of what we know 235 00:13:33,529 --> 00:13:35,200 and what we've discovered on Mars. 236 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:39,450 But talk to me some about the landscape of Mars. 237 00:13:39,450 --> 00:13:43,690 >> Well the landscape is tremendous in terms of its variations. 238 00:13:43,690 --> 00:13:48,500 Huge shield volcanos, and there are quite a few of them on the surface of Mars that 239 00:13:48,500 --> 00:13:50,990 have been built up over time. 240 00:13:50,990 --> 00:13:57,610 Or just it would be an enormous amount of effort to be able to scale one, even for humans, 241 00:13:57,610 --> 00:14:00,850 and reach the caldera area. 242 00:14:00,850 --> 00:14:02,990 The valleys are absolutely enormous. 243 00:14:02,990 --> 00:14:06,650 They're tremendously deep and they're very long. 244 00:14:06,650 --> 00:14:11,470 Some of the tributaries of Valles Marineris are about the size of our own Grand Canyon, 245 00:14:11,470 --> 00:14:16,690 which we all dearly love and are always in awe every time we see them. 246 00:14:16,690 --> 00:14:24,700 The other landscapes, in terms of the craters and the variations that are seen, are also 247 00:14:24,700 --> 00:14:26,520 quite spectacular. 248 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:32,820 You know where curiosity is sitting is in an ancient river or lake bed. 249 00:14:32,820 --> 00:14:34,960 We see the rounded pebbles. 250 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:40,780 We look and we can see regions like that that look familiar to us but yet strangely different. 251 00:14:40,780 --> 00:14:43,020 >> And what does rounded pebbles-- What does that mean? 252 00:14:43,020 --> 00:14:47,060 >> Well the rounded pebbles, you know, you start with a rock that's been broken away 253 00:14:47,060 --> 00:14:53,610 and it's got sharp edges and as it rolls down the hill and then has moved in water and continually 254 00:14:53,610 --> 00:14:58,830 is rounded that's done by an aqueous process. 255 00:14:58,830 --> 00:15:04,500 And so then they accumulate well down stream and create a conglomerate and they look just 256 00:15:04,500 --> 00:15:08,320 like the ancient river beds that we have here on Earth. 257 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,940 We can see those similarities even on Mars. 258 00:15:11,940 --> 00:15:17,240 So there'll be some things like that that'll look very familiar, but yet different. 259 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:22,870 We'll understand the commonality and the geological processes. 260 00:15:22,870 --> 00:15:25,990 But then there'll be things that will surprise us for sure. 261 00:15:25,990 --> 00:15:28,650 >> And so we're talking about the geology part of aspect of Mars. 262 00:15:28,650 --> 00:15:31,899 Do we know much about the climate of Mars? 263 00:15:31,899 --> 00:15:37,740 >> Well we actually have developed a global climate models right now. 264 00:15:37,740 --> 00:15:46,930 We're probably at the state that NOAH, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, that 265 00:15:46,930 --> 00:15:54,959 runs the weather systems and weather satellites and predicts our weather and climate. 266 00:15:54,959 --> 00:15:57,370 Where they were probably in the 60s. 267 00:15:57,370 --> 00:16:03,940 And so we know what the wind patterns are and we have a fair amount of information about 268 00:16:03,940 --> 00:16:11,460 levitating dust and transport of dust, because as I mentioned Mars is a very dusty environment. 269 00:16:11,460 --> 00:16:17,420 The global wind patterns are actually fairly simple. 270 00:16:17,420 --> 00:16:20,300 If clouds were to form they would change rapidly. 271 00:16:20,300 --> 00:16:25,180 You'd have variations in temperatures and we can model all that. 272 00:16:25,180 --> 00:16:27,990 And that's really pretty exciting. 273 00:16:27,990 --> 00:16:33,700 Our knowledge of Mars has grown so extensively that those models will be important when humans 274 00:16:33,700 --> 00:16:37,100 arrive and want to know how the weather will change over time. 275 00:16:37,100 --> 00:16:38,370 >> Yeah that's very interesting. 276 00:16:38,370 --> 00:16:40,570 And so we have seasons? 277 00:16:40,570 --> 00:16:42,140 >> Mars does have seasons. 278 00:16:42,140 --> 00:16:44,870 Yeah it does. 279 00:16:44,870 --> 00:16:50,160 In fact in the polar region we put a spacecraft down on the ground called Phoenix. 280 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,399 It wasn't a rover. 281 00:16:52,399 --> 00:16:56,740 It was designed to be able to get under the surface and look for the water layer that 282 00:16:56,740 --> 00:16:59,279 we thought was pretty close to the surface. 283 00:16:59,279 --> 00:17:04,189 And indeed it wasn't very far underneath the soil that we actually found that water layer 284 00:17:04,189 --> 00:17:05,750 and tasted it. 285 00:17:05,750 --> 00:17:07,230 We knew it was water. 286 00:17:07,230 --> 00:17:11,020 99% pure water is what Phoenix saw. 287 00:17:11,020 --> 00:17:13,000 But it only lasted three or four months. 288 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,509 The snow came, it snowed. 289 00:17:15,509 --> 00:17:21,799 There was so much snow at Phoenix that it piled up on its solar panels and broke them 290 00:17:21,799 --> 00:17:22,970 off. 291 00:17:22,970 --> 00:17:28,309 And so we see from orbit as we've gone over Phoenix now, during the summer time period, 292 00:17:28,309 --> 00:17:34,100 where the polar cap is receded, the busted up spacecraft that was underneath the snows 293 00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:35,610 that occurred. 294 00:17:35,610 --> 00:17:42,619 So we're going to see some familiar things like that, you know, the seasons and the precipitation 295 00:17:42,619 --> 00:17:43,730 that does occur. 296 00:17:43,730 --> 00:17:44,730 >> Fascinating. 297 00:17:44,730 --> 00:17:45,730 Very fascinating. 298 00:17:45,730 --> 00:17:46,929 I see why you signed up now. 299 00:17:46,929 --> 00:17:47,929 >> Yeah. 300 00:17:47,929 --> 00:17:48,929 >> I'm ready to go too. 301 00:17:48,929 --> 00:17:49,929 >> Interesting place. 302 00:17:49,929 --> 00:17:54,080 And also given our other possibilities in the outer solar system Mars is a picnic [laughs]. 303 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:55,080 >> Yeah. 304 00:17:55,080 --> 00:18:00,730 >> Mercury goes from roasting hot to freezing cold, far hotter and far colder than Mars 305 00:18:00,730 --> 00:18:01,730 can ever be. 306 00:18:01,730 --> 00:18:03,789 Venus is hot enough to melt lead. 307 00:18:03,789 --> 00:18:09,669 Our own moon goes from plus 200 to minus 100 over the course of its two week day and night 308 00:18:09,669 --> 00:18:13,480 cycle, or two weeks of day, two weeks of night. 309 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:19,299 Mars has a day and a night that's like the Earth, about 24 hours to go around, to spin 310 00:18:19,299 --> 00:18:20,299 once. 311 00:18:20,299 --> 00:18:21,299 It has seasons. 312 00:18:21,299 --> 00:18:25,409 It's axial tilt, the way the sun changes its height through summer and winter is the same 313 00:18:25,409 --> 00:18:32,140 on Mars as it is on Earth so it really is the garden spot of the inner solar system, 314 00:18:32,140 --> 00:18:33,870 except for the Earth of course. 315 00:18:33,870 --> 00:18:35,409 >> Garden spot [laughs]. 316 00:18:35,409 --> 00:18:41,789 So we've heard from a planetary perspective the things that you have hoped to discover 317 00:18:41,789 --> 00:18:43,510 and learn further once we get to Mars. 318 00:18:43,510 --> 00:18:49,690 Are there any other things that you, as an actual explorer, would hope to learn and find 319 00:18:49,690 --> 00:18:50,840 when you get there? 320 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:56,970 >> Well from the exploration standpoint the important thing would be to get there, to 321 00:18:56,970 --> 00:19:00,009 survive and thrive there and to come home safely. 322 00:19:00,009 --> 00:19:01,009 >> Mm-hmm. 323 00:19:01,009 --> 00:19:04,309 >> So that's the purpose of the journey from the exploration standpoint. 324 00:19:04,309 --> 00:19:10,600 Now the mission that we take to Mars when the first people go is going to be not just 325 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,440 flags and footprints like we did with Apollo. 326 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:18,519 Remember we have put 12 people on the surface of the moon, of whom one was a geologist and 327 00:19:18,519 --> 00:19:22,780 that was on the last Apollo flight that ever went. 328 00:19:22,780 --> 00:19:27,860 The first crew on Mars is probably going to be half geologists. 329 00:19:27,860 --> 00:19:36,780 So the-- That mission and its objectives will be to explore the area geologically, to collect 330 00:19:36,780 --> 00:19:41,570 the best samples, to do the best science, to work with a team of scientists back on 331 00:19:41,570 --> 00:19:47,480 Earth, to make sure that they've surveyed the whole area and found as many interesting 332 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,419 things as they can. 333 00:19:49,419 --> 00:19:56,379 And even among the section of the crew that's not geologists, the pilots, the engineers, 334 00:19:56,379 --> 00:20:00,450 they're going to have engrained in their mind that mission success for this flight is to 335 00:20:00,450 --> 00:20:01,879 do good geology. 336 00:20:01,879 --> 00:20:02,879 >> Sure. 337 00:20:02,879 --> 00:20:04,090 >> So they'll have geology training. 338 00:20:04,090 --> 00:20:09,010 They'll be-- Once the-- Once the spacecraft is down, the systems are safe and we're in, 339 00:20:09,010 --> 00:20:16,340 sort of, a housekeeping mode those non-geologists will have had some basic geology training 340 00:20:16,340 --> 00:20:19,909 and their job will be to help the geologists do the best possible science that we can on 341 00:20:19,909 --> 00:20:24,100 the surface of this planet and learn as much as we can. 342 00:20:24,100 --> 00:20:28,210 So the normal things that we think of when we're just doing an exploration expedition 343 00:20:28,210 --> 00:20:32,840 to get out and get back are going to be tightly interwoven with the science goals of this 344 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:34,120 mission. 345 00:20:34,120 --> 00:20:38,159 It's going to be a very different thing than Apollo, or maybe similar to the last Apollo 346 00:20:38,159 --> 00:20:42,960 flight where we did have a real geologist on the moon. 347 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,450 And he was just in heaven because it was such a cool spot. 348 00:20:45,450 --> 00:20:47,710 And Mars would be even more interesting. 349 00:20:47,710 --> 00:20:57,250 Many more similarities with Earth and much easier for a Earth geologist to recognize 350 00:20:57,250 --> 00:21:03,509 things similar to but not identical to things on Earth, whereas the moon is dominated by 351 00:21:03,509 --> 00:21:08,200 processes that we barely see on the Earth and it's tough to, sort of, get a grip on. 352 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:09,200 >> Yeah. 353 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:10,200 >> Mars is going to be closer. 354 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:16,109 >> And with it-- With the geology being such an important focus in our initial, you know, 355 00:21:16,109 --> 00:21:22,450 flights to Mars, have we started learning or practicing any of the techniques or trying 356 00:21:22,450 --> 00:21:27,369 to develop any of the tools in at which we would actually core and get samples? 357 00:21:27,369 --> 00:21:34,509 >> We have been running model planetary exploration expeditions out in the desert of Arizona. 358 00:21:34,509 --> 00:21:37,610 Sometimes with space suits, sometimes with just space suit mockups. 359 00:21:37,610 --> 00:21:43,739 We do mock space expeditions underwater at, off the coast of Florida where we're working 360 00:21:43,739 --> 00:21:48,460 mostly on asteroid techniques because with being under water you can be weightless. 361 00:21:48,460 --> 00:21:51,080 But those techniques work equally well for Phobos and Deimos. 362 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:53,259 Anything we're doing for asteroids is great for Phobos and Deimos. 363 00:21:53,259 --> 00:21:58,470 They may-- Those two moons may actually be asteroids that Mars captured into orbit around 364 00:21:58,470 --> 00:21:59,610 itself. 365 00:21:59,610 --> 00:22:06,809 So that kind of work is going on but it's at a, sort of, a conceptual level and we won't 366 00:22:06,809 --> 00:22:11,350 be able to design the real tools until we get closer to flight. 367 00:22:11,350 --> 00:22:17,799 One other thing to bear in mind is that the quality of our analytical equipment, you know, 368 00:22:17,799 --> 00:22:22,929 you take a rock and you put it in this machine and it tells you what the rock's made out 369 00:22:22,929 --> 00:22:23,929 of, okay. 370 00:22:23,929 --> 00:22:25,480 Those are getting better all the time. 371 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,119 Something that would have filled this building in the 1960s you can now carry in your hands. 372 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:30,759 >> Yes like our computers [laughs]. 373 00:22:30,759 --> 00:22:35,091 >> Okay so in 2035 are you going to want this clunky thing that fits in your hand or are 374 00:22:35,091 --> 00:22:37,240 you just going to hold your iPhone up to the rock [laughs]. 375 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:38,240 >> Sure, yeah. 376 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:39,269 >> It tells you what it's made out of. 377 00:22:39,269 --> 00:22:43,539 So in that sense you don't want to design the tools yet. 378 00:22:43,539 --> 00:22:44,539 >> Right. 379 00:22:44,539 --> 00:22:48,779 >> Because when you get ready to go you want the latest technology, not the very latest 380 00:22:48,779 --> 00:22:50,610 because you want something that's proven itself reliable. 381 00:22:50,610 --> 00:22:53,600 Because you get the latest thing with bells and whistles, you get off to Mars and it turns 382 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:54,600 out it doesn't work. 383 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:55,600 It's not so good. 384 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:56,600 >> The glitches. 385 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:01,039 >> That actually brings up another point that Jim mentioned, the moon rocks and the sample 386 00:23:01,039 --> 00:23:02,289 return. 387 00:23:02,289 --> 00:23:08,350 Bringing back the samples from Mars is valuable, not just because you can't take the best equipment 388 00:23:08,350 --> 00:23:10,070 to Mars and measure things there. 389 00:23:10,070 --> 00:23:15,509 But when you have a sample on the ground you have it for the future. 390 00:23:15,509 --> 00:23:21,540 So the moon rocks that we have now that we collected in the late 60s and early 70s are 391 00:23:21,540 --> 00:23:22,540 stored. 392 00:23:22,540 --> 00:23:23,929 They're safe. 393 00:23:23,929 --> 00:23:25,350 We have them. 394 00:23:25,350 --> 00:23:30,879 The instruments that we have today that were not even imaginable in the 1960s and early 395 00:23:30,879 --> 00:23:33,559 70s; we can take that rock and put that in that machine. 396 00:23:33,559 --> 00:23:38,169 100 years from now when we have even better machines, we can take that rock we can put 397 00:23:38,169 --> 00:23:39,609 it in that machine. 398 00:23:39,609 --> 00:23:46,600 So that's the real, the thing that makes the return sample absolutely treasure is that 399 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,120 we have it for the future. 400 00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:51,350 You don't just have it for the instruments that you manage to send there, which are going 401 00:23:51,350 --> 00:23:52,719 to be old and clunky in 100 years. 402 00:23:52,719 --> 00:23:53,719 >> Mm-hmm. 403 00:23:53,719 --> 00:23:57,899 >> When we have these amazing things we can barely even dream of today we'll be able to 404 00:23:57,899 --> 00:24:02,640 have those samples and analyze them using those amazing new tools as we get them. 405 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:03,640 >> Yeah. 406 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:08,489 And talking about coring, do we know, also going back to the geology is it-- Is the composition 407 00:24:08,489 --> 00:24:10,639 of Mars, is it anything like Earth? 408 00:24:10,639 --> 00:24:14,480 I mean are we going to get there and think oh my gosh this is much harder and we're not 409 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:15,480 able to do this? 410 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:16,480 How do we know? 411 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,320 >> Well you know the rocks will have various densities associated with them. 412 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,610 And on the 20/20 we were already developing the drill concept. 413 00:24:23,610 --> 00:24:25,409 So we're going to core rocks. 414 00:24:25,409 --> 00:24:27,539 We're going to get in several inches. 415 00:24:27,539 --> 00:24:30,179 It'll be like a piece of chalk. 416 00:24:30,179 --> 00:24:33,129 And then we want to get in the hole and we want to interrogate it. 417 00:24:33,129 --> 00:24:36,980 And then we'll zap it with laser and we'll vaporize the rock and then we'll look at the 418 00:24:36,980 --> 00:24:40,609 spectrum and then we'll figure out hey that's a sample we want to keep or we want to move 419 00:24:40,609 --> 00:24:41,609 on. 420 00:24:41,609 --> 00:24:48,200 We'll have very high resolution microscopes, if you will, to look at the mineralogy to 421 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:55,549 see if these rocks have been-- a sediment has come into them because of water has deposited 422 00:24:55,549 --> 00:24:56,549 them. 423 00:24:56,549 --> 00:24:57,600 In other words are they veiny. 424 00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,679 You know, what kind of materials there are. 425 00:24:59,679 --> 00:25:03,500 So that's the kind of sights that we want to go to. 426 00:25:03,500 --> 00:25:12,669 We'll see variations in how hard these rocks are and we want to store those at all levels. 427 00:25:12,669 --> 00:25:19,080 As Stan said quite eloquently, these are samples that we'll [Background Music] keep giving 428 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:24,289 science as we bring them back to Earth and then study them because our tools will only 429 00:25:24,289 --> 00:25:26,740 get better in terms of analyzing them. 430 00:25:26,740 --> 00:25:30,909 >> It's totally fascinating and I think that's about all the time that we have but I really 431 00:25:30,909 --> 00:25:33,269 appreciate you guys coming out and talking with us. 432 00:25:33,269 --> 00:25:38,919 You can get more information going to the website at www.nasa.gov. 433 00:25:38,919 --> 00:25:43,929 And as always continue and join the conversation on twitter using the hashtag Journey to Mars. 434 00:25:43,929 --> 00:25:45,239 I appreciate you guys coming out. 435 00:25:45,239 --> 00:25:46,239 Thanks very much. 436 00:25:46,239 --> 00:25:47,239 >> Oh my pleasure. 437 00:25:47,239 --> 00:25:48,239 >> You're very welcome.